We are in the process of another constitution making. If you agree, what’s your take on the arrangement?
Let me correct the impression that we are in the process of another constitution making. The National Conference, as constituted by the President, lacks the capacity to draft a constitution to be submitted to the people for approval through a referendum. It doesn’t have the capacity, so it does not entail a constitution making at all. That is something we have to realise, arising from the nature and type of the conference as constituted or established by the President.
The reason for this is that the conference is not established by virtue of any law enacted by the National Assembly. The convocation, its composition, its functions, its modus operandi are not catered for by law. It is established entirely by virtue of the inherent powers of the President under Section 5 of the constitution. With its limited functions, its establishment is within the immediate powers of the President. A conference not established under a law enacted by the legislative authorities of the country cannot adopt a constitution. It lacks the capacity to draft a constitution that will be binding on everybody as law.
At best, what do you think would come out of this exercise?
Nothing, it’s just a talk-shop. We must realise that it’s a talk-shop. It’s functions are merely deliberative and advisory. So, there is no harm in talking. If they talk for three months, something good may come out of it but, certainly, not the adoption of a new constitution.
As it is, how can we make the best out of the present arrangement for the good of the country?
We have to decide first: what do you want as a country? What we want is a new, better and united Nigeria. That is what we want. There is no way you can get it from this conference. Even if you talk for one year, there is no way you can get it in this conference, we must all realise this. You can get something, but not a new and united Nigeria. You can’t because of the limitations of this conference; it has no powers, it has only functions.
There is a difference in law between powers and functions. This conference doesn’t have the powers to bind you and me, to affect the legal relations of you and me, or the legal rights of you and me. It doesn’t have the powers, that is what powers entail. It has only functions, deliberations, talking. You can talk for one year but what can come out of the talking is another matter.
You are one of those who convinced President Jonathan to go for National Conference. But the way you sound, it’s as if you are disappointed with the turn of things…
That is correct. I led the delegation of The Patriots to the President on August 29, 2013, and I think we were able to persuade him. The so-called u-turn made by the President is as a result of that meeting. But the conference we asked him to convene is totally different from what he has now established. There are totally two different things.
We were looking for a conference that will have the power to adopt a new constitution for Nigeria, that will be submitted to the people at a referendum for approval. That was what we were asking for, and we were asking for a conference of ethnic nationalities. I will come to that later.
On the first aspect, what we have now that the President has given us is a conference that lacks power to adopt a new constitution that will be submitted to the people at a referendum for approval. What the President said, in his speech at the inauguration about referendum is so confusing. I don’t know what the President means.
He said: “Let me, at this point, thank the National Assembly for introducing the provision for a referendum in the proposed amendment of the constitution. This should be relevant for the conference if, at the end of the deliberations, the need for a referendum arises. I therefore urge the National Assembly and state Houses of Assembly to speed up the constitutional amendment process especially with regard to the subject of referendum.”
What does this mean? How can the need for a referendum arise when the conference does not have as its purpose the adoption of a constitution? So, what are you subjecting to a referendum? When we talk about referendum, it’s in relation to a constitution. So, how can the need arise when the purpose of the conference is not the adoption of a constitution and when the conference lacks competence to adopt a constitution?
The President, at a time, was talking about subjecting the outcome of the conference to the consideration of the National Assembly…
You mean for the National Assembly to subject it to a referendum? No, that’s not what this conference states.When you critically examine that statement by the President, it is deliberately intended to confuse.
Some have said that the President based the conference on modalities or template established by the Senator Femi Okuronmu Presidential Advisory Committee on National Conference. Do you agree?
Yes, to a large extent. If you read the report, it was the Okuronmu committee that recommended that there are two alternatives that the conference should be based on. One, is to establish a conference that will be authorized by an enabling law of the National Assembly and that the alternative is to establish a conference by virtue of the President’s inherent powers. But the President went for the alternative to constitute a conference based on his inherent powers. On this regard, The Patriots had written a letter to him to say ‘please, don’t go for this inherent powers because that will not meet the demands of the country.’
Our demand is for a conference that has the capacity to adopt a constitution. But the President went for the alternative put to him by the Presidential Advisory Committee. So, to some extent, PAC is responsible for this because they put the alternative to him and he grabbed it and landed us in this situation that we are now.
Your critics say that you are responsible for all these problems we have.
What problems?
They said the President acknowledged your immense capacity to turn things around and nominated you into the Okuronmu committee but you didn’t take up the appointment. They said that if you had taken up the appointment, your input would have helped to make the modalities better. How do you react to this?That position is misconceived as I said in my press statement on this issue of my appointment. At the time we met with the President, he promised he was going to do something. I never anticipated that I will be made a member of the committee, not to talk of being the Chairman.
And the reason I gave was that, one, I am 83, and in very bad health and cannot go across the country. I have prostrate cancer, which I have been fighting for the past couple of years. Every year, I go to Britain twice to consult with my oncologist. As you are aware, cancer is stubborn. So, I am surviving on injections. I said I couldn’t, given my age and my state of health.
I explained that I couldn’t afford to go round the country with the committee. From Bayelsa to Sokoto, Sokoto to Maiduguri, Maiduguri to Enugu, Enugu to Benin, Benin to Lagos… I said I couldn’t. I gave that as a reason, that in any case, I think there is an option for a younger person. These are the reasons I gave and I then nominated Chief Solomon Asemota (SAN). They initially rejected him but eventually appointed him.
They have a reason for choosing Okuronmu. They wanted the type of conference that they have now established. They were looking for somebody who will go along with them. Then Okuronmu was good choice for them. Asemota refused to go along with their plan. That is what I would have done if I were there. He submitted a minority report which was suppressed. Asemota was denied the right to present the minority report.
The fact that Asemota submitted a minority report was acknowledged by the appropriate authorities. And the Asemota minority report contains exactly what The Patriots wanted. And attached to it is a bill - The National Conference and Referendum Bill – prepared by The Patriots and submitted to the presidency, two years ago. But they refused to look at it. Instead, they have continued to deny that there was a minority report, when the fact is, there was. So, you can see, it’s not my fault.
I couldn’t serve, and I nominated somebody to be there, who presented the views that I would have presented if I was there but they suppressed it. They denied Asemota the right to present it, which is a terrible thing. That is a sign that would have destroyed the whole thing if we had wanted to press on with it. A minority report submitted, you acknowledged receipt of it and you came out publicly that it never existed, that it was not submitted.
Everyone denied it; from Okuronmu to Reuben Abati presidential spokesman. They castigated the Chairman of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA) for saying that there was a minority report. They said there was none. So, anybody who is blaming me for that is being unfair.
Interview by Vanguard's Clifford Ndujihe & Ikenna Asomba
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